R32 vs BMW

[Sinan]

E-njoy!

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain.jsp?lnk=901&id=108

[SirRangeALot]

Nice find!

VW - 1
BMW - 0

:finger:

[justin]

Count it!

[twooly]

BMW :owned: By VW

[SDKmann]

Ok I will make a small list of why you shouldnt rejoice just yet.

1. Its all about the driver, the guy obviously needs more work with real cars (RWD cars) if the RWD is affecting it that much
2. I think a race between lighter cars (3 door versions) even on a wet track would be different
3. THE TRACK WAS WET!!! No **** the AWD VW will have an advantage. Try this on a dry track and it will be a much different race.
4. Its a 1 series, nuff said. Brand new vehicle type for BMW so thier still working out kinks. The closest thing to a 1 is my car and I doubt it has one solitary part that is shared.

Now someone needs to buy a 3 door R32 and Ill buy a 1 ///M package and we will head to Road America for a rematch.

[stollen]

Ok I will make a small list of why you shouldnt rejoice just yet.

1. Its all about the driver, the guy obviously needs more work with real cars (RWD cars) if the RWD is affecting it that much
2. I think a race between lighter cars (3 door versions) even on a wet track would be different
3. THE TRACK WAS WET!!! No **** the AWD VW will have an advantage. Try this on a dry track and it will be a much different race.
4. Its a 1 series, nuff said. Brand new vehicle type for BMW so thier still working out kinks. The closest thing to a 1 is my car and I doubt it has one solitary part that is shared.

Now someone needs to buy a 3 door R32 and Ill buy a 1 ///M package and we will head to Road America for a rematch.


You seriously think the guy hasn't driven enough RWD cars to be able to drive a BMW 1 series to its potential? Wet track/dry track :blahblah: you would be amazed at how AWD helps even on a dry track. Sure you pay a weight penalty for having AWD but it pays off bigtime when powering out of a corner. BMW introduced the 1 series (even though not in the US) in 2004, that gives them several years to "work out the kinks".

Don't get me wrong, the BMW is a nice car, and in its own class as far as a small, affordable RWD car goes. Can you really just not admit that the almighty BMW was beaten by a "lowly" VW?

I already have a 3 door R32 (MKIV), when you buy that 1 series //M package let me know and I will go with you to Road America, even with my now outdated R.

A friend of mine who has a highly modified Z06 (Lingenfelter 427 cid motor, mini-tubbed, huge R compound tires, racing seats, roll cage, large sway bars, etc...) and I go to the track in Brainered 3 times a year. He was riding with me when I still had stock suspension and stock tires (goodyear F1's) and he was amazed that I was taking the tight turns in the rain only 5mph slower than he does in his Vette when it is dry out. The R32 surprises a lot of people, it really is an awesome handling car.

[SDKmann]

You seriously think the guy hasn't driven enough RWD cars to be able to drive a BMW 1 series to its potential? Wet track/dry track :blahblah: you would be amazed at how AWD helps even on a dry track. Sure you pay a weight penalty for having AWD but it pays off bigtime when powering out of a corner. BMW introduced the 1 series (even though not in the US) in 2004, that gives them several years to "work out the kinks".

Don't get me wrong, the BMW is a nice car, and in its own class as far as a small, affordable RWD car goes. Can you really just not admit that the almighty BMW was beaten by a "lowly" VW?

I already have a 3 door R32 (MKIV), when you buy that 1 series //M package let me know and I will go with you to Road America, even with my now outdated R.

A friend of mine who has a highly modified Z06 (Lingenfelter 427 cid motor, mini-tubbed, huge R compound tires, racing seats, roll cage, large sway bars, etc...) and I go to the track in Brainered 3 times a year. He was riding with me when I still had stock suspension and stock tires (goodyear F1's) and he was amazed that I was taking the tight turns in the rain only 5mph slower than he does in his Vette when it is dry out. The R32 surprises a lot of people, it really is an awesome handling car.

Well to start things off, yes I dont think he has the experience to drive the 1 to its potential if the RWD if it was affecting him as much as he was saying on the wet track. And yes, wet track dry track would make a huge difference. The AWD may still be nice on dry track but thats not the point. The point is that the BMW does lose on the wet track, I just highly doubt its as much as he was saying. Its not that I have a problem with VWs, if I did I wouldnt be here everyday, its just that the race wasnt fair. The second the vid came on and I saw the conditions I knew that the R32 would win although I thought it would do better then a tenth over the 1.

[SirRangeALot]

SOMEONE has their panties in a bunch... ;) :p

[SDKmann]

Lol, Im still upset/recovering from the nice little card VW sent me in a R&T mag. That would be such a great ad if I didnt own a BMW...

[stollen]

Well to start things off, yes I dont think he has the experience to drive the 1 to its potential if the RWD if it was affecting him as much as he was saying on the wet track. And yes, wet track dry track would make a huge difference. The AWD may still be nice on dry track but thats not the point. The point is that the BMW does lose on the wet track, I just highly doubt its as much as he was saying. Its not that I have a problem with VWs, if I did I wouldnt be here everyday, its just that the race wasnt fair. The second the vid came on and I saw the conditions I knew that the R32 would win although I thought it would do better then a tenth over the 1.

Maybe the BMW does in fact handle better when the road is dry (which takes a lot of fun away when the rain starts falling), but I thought you may find some of these interesting, taken from the wikipedia page for the 1 series BMW:



In a road test in the Sunday Times, Jeremy Clarkson, gave the 1-Series 1 out of 5 stars. His reason for this low score was what he believed was excessive compromise in the name of driver involvement (which was the only thing which he liked), namely lack of interior space and practicality. He also detested the styling and disapproved of the poor interior quality, which he felt was not up to the standards one would expect from a £15,000 (minimum) to £32,000 (maximum) premium BMW.


Jeremy Clarkson compared the 130i to the Volkswagen Golf R32. He was again disappointed by the 1-Series' extreme compromises for the sake of driver enjoyment. Clarkson vastly preferred the R32, believing it to be more practical, higher quality, easier to live with and almost as fun to drive as the 130i (the R32 has a Haldex all wheel drive system).

Clarkson's Top Gear colleague, James May, was more lenient than him as he liked the 116i's bold styling (unlike Clarkson) and driving dynamics. He still viewed the interior as poor quality and lacking in practicality. In May's words, "If the [£15,000] 116i was all the car you could need then it [the price] would be OK. But it just isn't."


Fifth Gear's Tiff Needell also raced the 130i against the R32. The RWD 130i finished within a tenth of a second of the 4WD R32 on a wet track.


And perhaps the one that pertains the most to our discussion:



In Australia's Motor Magazine article Bang for your Bucks, the 130i finished a second slower than the R32 on a dry track.


Seems like the gap was widened when the track was dry.

BMW has always been about quality and driving enjoyment. They got it almost exactly right on damn near every other car they make (interiors could use some updating though). Seems they just missed the mark a little when trying to produce a lower cost car.

[SDKmann]

Hmmm, thats odd about the dry track. Although I would like to see video proof or at least have the info coming from a source I know. Mabye ET will do an article. About the rateing of the car based on quality and looks Im sure its dead on. The 1 is a lot like the 318ti. A cheap entry level BMW hatch. My car suffers from poor interior quality compared to other BMWs (although its still not terrible), and like the ti they probably had to sacrifice a lot to cheaply develop and produce the 1. After seeing them in Europe I am also not a big fan of the one series and would agree that the R32 has better styling although what I have seen so far is that aftermarket styleing for the 1 is better. So yes like the ti BMW has yet again probably created another automotive "failure" because they didnt take the time and care with it as they would their precious coupes and sedans. I still however object to 5th gears overall assesment of the 1 and the race that it was run in (although only being off by a tenth isnt bad)

[CHARLATAN]

My only comment is that Tiff was a professional race driver previous to doing Fifth Gear (he also mainly drove rear wheel drive cars, I believe he was big into 944's?) and thus he can handle whatever they threw at him...if the r32 beat the bimmer, it did so evenly. I like both cars. I wouldn't doubt that they were probably a little too critical of the BMW, but I have yet to see one.

[twooly]

Lol, Im still upset/recovering from the nice little card VW sent me in a R&T mag. That would be such a great ad if I didnt own a BMW...


My dad got a card that was pretty funny.

On the front it had a dog with an ice pack on that said "Bad Day"
then on the inside it said "I would be having a bad day too if a VW passed my Mercedes"

:D I thought it was great.

[SDKmann]

My only comment is that Tiff was a professional race driver previous to doing Fifth Gear (he also mainly drove rear wheel drive cars, I believe he was big into 944's?) and thus he can handle whatever they threw at him...if the r32 beat the bimmer, it did so evenly. I like both cars. I wouldn't doubt that they were probably a little too critical of the BMW, but I have yet to see one.

Ok I believe that but I still have a hard time believeing that it gave him that much trouble, especially if he did race RWD cars. Even in wet weather BMWs can hold thier own although the AWD definitly has the advantage

[Head at JJperf]

put it against an M roadster or coupe instead of a 130i

[SDKmann]

+1

[CHARLATAN]

put it against an M roadster or coupe instead of a 130i

I thought I saw an M logo in the vid...i don't have sound at work, so they could have just said something about them...am i wrong here?

[SDKmann]

It has the ///M package. I dont know if its not actually considered a M car or if their not nameing it the M1 because of the 80s M1 supercar (which the 1 is not, obviously). But what he is saying is that the Z4 M Coupe is technically a hatch and is faster then the 1 and R32.

[stollen]

put it against an M roadster or coupe instead of a 130i

Are you serious? The M coupe is at least 20k (a lot considering that is basically 66% of the cost of an R32) more than the R32, that is an absolutely pointless comparison. They aren't even close to being in the same class, and nobody is cross shopping an R32 and an M coupe :rolleyes:

[SDKmann]

Well yeah, but their both hatchs.:D

[stollen]

Well yeah, but their both hatchs.:D

:laugh: I agree with you there

[CHARLATAN]

I love hot hatches...:)

[SirRangeALot]

My dad got a card that was pretty funny.

On the front it had a dog with an ice pack on that said "Bad Day"
then on the inside it said "I would be having a bad day too if a VW passed my Mercedes"

:D I thought it was great.

That's awesome!

I saw a new VW Eos commercial today, their new slogan is "once you get into a VW, it gets into you." I love it! :tu:


put it against an M roadster or coupe instead of a 130i


They aren't even close to being in the same class, and nobody is cross shopping an R32 and an M coupe :rolleyes:

:word:

[twooly]

I saw a new VW Eos commercial today, their new slogan is "once you get into a VW, it gets into you." I love it! :tu:



Saw that same commerical, saw same one for a jetta too.

[OrangeDUB]

Eh, they're both German I got love for em both!

Hatches FTW :laugh:

[SirRangeALot]

Hatches FTW :laugh:

Herrrre we go... :rolleyes: :D

[SirRangeALot]

Saw that same commerical, saw same one for a jetta too.

Just saw one for the GTI mkV...it's really good! I love their new advertising!

[Sinan]

where do you guys see all of these new ones? (i dont watch TV much...anywhere else?)

[SirRangeALot]

(i dont watch TV much...anywhere else?)

Well, where else are you going to see commercials?? ;)

Honestly, they don't play them as much as they should. I've only seen them 4-5x this week.

I really like their new advertising. VW has struck gold with their new slogan. It also couldn't be more true; "once you get into a Volkswagen, it gets into you." :tu: